impact reports

Masked Conversations

February 2024 Impact Report

When our team conducts campus outreach, we start conversations with people of all different types. What’s pretty common among all of this diversity, though, is the tendency for people to hide behind various kinds of masks. On Halloween every year, these masks are visible. On all other days, the masks are invisible but nonetheless present.

In this Impact Report, JFA trainer Rebekah Dyer tells the story of one conversation that had both the visible type of mask and the invisible type of mask. In the conversation, she modeled an excellent approach each of us can use as Christian ambassadors to build trust in order to help people come out from behind their masks and partner with us in finding truth.

Steve Wagner, Executive Director


Rebekah spoke with another masked man on Halloween at the University of North Texas (UNT) in fall 2023.

On Halloween last year, I was at the University of North Texas, and I noticed a man in a scary, tan-colored mask with no mouth and black eyes. He was looking at our embryology pictures.

I asked him what he thought about abortion. He shrugged and motioned to his mask. An interesting interaction ensued as I asked him questions, and he tried to answer with hand motions. Here’s the gist of the conversation that followed:

At UNT, a banana signed “No, abortion should not be legal.” Seth (hat) is visible talking to another student.

“Wait,” I asked, “can you not talk in the mask?” He nodded. “Is it that tight?” He nodded again. “How long have you been wearing it?” He made a motion with his hands. “You’ve been wearing it for twenty-one hours?” I asked, surprised. With an exasperated sigh he motioned again. “Two and a half hours?” I guessed again. He nodded vigorously. “Wow!” I said. “Well, if you want to chat, I’ll be around.”

“This is gonna look bad, but I’m going to sign,” said the Grim Reaper to JFA trainer Kristina at UNT. Then she proceeded to sign “Yes” on our poll.

I stepped away to make some notes about another conversation I had had that day. A few minutes later the student took off his mask, and we began to have a normal conversation. “Landon” told me he was in the middle on this issue. As I asked him questions, he shared that he thought abortion should be broadly legal so that women who have life-threatening complications during pregnancy have access to abortion. He shared that he had a friend who had been raped and had gotten pregnant at thirteen years old. This friend had also had seven abortions. Landon also told me people should be educated about abortion so that they know that it kills another human being.

As we spoke, I was hearing some conflicting things from Landon, so I asked the following question to help clarify some of the confusion:

Rebekah: What if we could have a law that made elective abortion broadly illegal, but had an exception for cases where the life of the mother is in danger?

Landon: Oh, that’s brilliant!

Rebekah: That’s what the current law is in Texas.

Landon was surprised and told me he agreed with the current law. As our conversation began to wind down he confessed something to me:

Landon: I need to apologize to you. I lied to you earlier. I can talk just fine in this mask. I was worried that you were going to yell at me when I walked up. I wanted to check out the signs, but I didn’t want to talk to anyone.

Rebekah: Thank you for telling me. I forgive you. I can understand why it might feel intimidating to come up to this display if you have that fear.

During our conversation, he shared with me that he was a Christian. Whenever someone tells me he is a Christian, I always ask him what he means by that. Landon answered by referencing the Nicene Creed.

This conversation highlights a few important things. First, if we jump to challenging people the moment we hear something with which we disagree, we can easily talk past them and address a view they don’t hold. In every conversation, it is crucial that we ask good questions and listen in order to understand the other person’s views. Landon went from sounding like he was in the middle on this issue, to sounding very pro-choice, to finally clarifying that he was actually opposed to the vast majority of abortions. If I hadn’t slowed down and asked Landon questions, I could have missed what he was trying to communicate.

Second, many people are unaware of the abortion laws in their own state. There is also a lot of apathy and ignorance surrounding what abortion is and what it does to another human being. When we have conversations about these things we have the opportunity to inform people and help move their hearts toward loving forgotten human beings, especially the unborn.

Third, many people are understandably uncomfortable talking about abortion. They are afraid of being verbally attacked, yelled at, and ridiculed. I understand that fear because I’ve had those experiences, and it affected the way I felt going into some future conversations. I’ve learned that acting against my fear and discomfort is necessary and something I’m called to do as a Christian. God meets us in those places of fear, and He empowers us to engage in the midst of difficult situations. By treating people with kindness and gentleness, we can invite others to engage in the conversation in spite of their fears.

In my experience, most conversations about abortion are not hostile. When people see that I want to have a civil conversation about an important issue, they are open to engaging in a respectful way. I think we can give people a gift on multiple levels. We can give them a good experience in a conversation about a difficult topic by asking questions, listening, and truly understanding them. Then we can help them get closer to the truth by challenging them to stop tolerating the killing of innocent children in the womb.

Should We Flip-Flop When Someone Flips Out?

JFA trainer Kristina Massa was surprised when an angry young woman lashed out at a poll table sign at our outreach event at Boise State in the fall. She was even more surprised at the conversation that followed. Through her retelling in a recent letter, “Flipping Tables in the Courtyard” (enclosed, or see www.jfaweb.org/jan-2024), Kristina provides a great model for deciding “what to say when,” and she illustrates the sort of balanced approach all JFA trainers aim to exhibit in every conversation. Please read her letter, and then I’ll explain.

Note how Kristina doesn’t shy away from the young woman’s question about homosexuality and marriage. You might think this would lead to a distraction from the main topic. While controversial questions can be a distraction in some abortion conversations, in this instance addressing the topic turned out to be helpful.

Kristina answered the young woman’s questions directly and honestly, giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was asking in good faith and not intending to trap. Kristina didn’t try to hide her views on sexuality and marriage, even though she knew they were very controversial. She didn’t go weak-kneed or change her views because this woman had flipped out by “flipping tables” (her words). Instead, Kristina gave a straightforward answer with a reasonable explanation, and she also avoided expressing her views in an unnecessarily harsh way.

Then Kristina prayed with the young woman, banking on the fact that they shared similar backgrounds in Christian communities. Rather than focusing on the differences she definitely had with this woman regarding beliefs about God, Jesus, and how we should live, Kristina focused on the small sliver of common ground that this woman had implied earlier, that she did consider herself to be following Jesus.

With many people who vehemently disagree with us on difficult topics, we have found this approach to be disarming and bridge-building. In this case, I am guessing that this woman appreciated the fact that Kristina showed interest in a passion of hers. I believe the woman also felt dignified by Kristina’s decision to trust her with what she really thought.

Conversations with Helen and Lisa

Thank you for supporting JFA’s work this year. We’ve been especially encouraged by the efforts of our fall 2023 interns, Seth and Catherine. In this Impact Report, you’ll read first-hand accounts of their conversations with “Helen” and “Lisa.” You can see both interns in action in the banner image and at the end of this post. Catherine will continue to volunteer with JFA in the coming months, and Seth is now raising support to work full-time as a Training Specialist. We thank God for these talented pro-life advocates, and we thank God for your partnership that has helped them make an impact.

You can still give a year-end gift at www.jfaweb.org/donate, or you can give a year-end gift by mail using the enclosed giving form and envelope. To receive a 2023 donation receipt, make sure gifts are submitted online or postmarked by December 31, 2023. Merry Christmas!

-Steve Wagner

IF WE HAD NOT GONE…

By Catherine Gimino, Fall 2023 Intern

“Helen” was unsure of her words, not just because we had interrupted her morning walk to class with an unexpected survey on abortion, but also because she was a foreign exchange student and new to speaking English. Despite this added difficulty with an already culturally-loaded topic, she was very willing to talk. I began by asking her questions to understand her view on abortion. Her view was that the unborn is not human until birth and so abortion at any stage is acceptable.

I walked her through what biology teaches us about the unborn, showing her that they are human beings starting at fertilization. I used Trot Out The Toddler and the Equal Rights Argument, tools taught by JFA to keep the conversation focused and to show that the unborn are human beings with an equal right to life. My attempts to clearly lay out the arguments were far from perfect. Despite feeling discouraged by my lack of eloquence, I kept going.

I eventually asked my coworker Kristina to jump in. She asked Helen, “Based off of what you’ve heard, do you think differently about abortion?” Helen responded saying that abortion should be illegal through all nine months and that she would support pro-life laws!

After Helen left, we debriefed the conversation. I told Kristina that I thought I could have explained things more clearly, but Kristina refocused me on the big picture: “That was a total mind change! By talking to you she went from thinking all abortion is okay to being against abortion. That is really awesome!” Then I realized something. If we had not gone out to WSU and asked Helen to participate in a JFA survey, her usual walk to class would have remained uninterrupted, and she would not have learned the truth about abortion that morning.

I trust God will bring a lot of fruit from this “interruption.”

A Conversation at Mankato

By Seth Wiesner, Fall 2023 Intern

In October I was doing outreach with the JFA team at Minnesota State University in Mankato. I started a conversation with a young woman named “Lisa.” She quickly became angry and began raising her voice. Suddenly she exclaimed, “I wish I had been aborted!”

Sensing that this issue was very personal to her, I took a step back from the questions I typically ask in order to challenge a person’s view. Instead I simply asked questions to try to understand her perspective. Asking questions about her beliefs not only helped me understand her position, but also demonstrated my care for her as a person. It gave me the opportunity to learn about her background, and this helped me discover the unspoken reasons that influenced her position.

Using this approach, we discussed her views on many different topics including the resurrection of Jesus. By the end of our conversation, she had softened her demeanor and her pro-choice views considerably. She accepted JFA’s “Invitation to Dialogue” brochure when I offered it to her and told me she was open to being pro-life. Thanks be to God. (See www.jfaweb.org/brochure to view and download the brochure.)

There is a great need for people to understand the truth about abortion. There are many out there, especially young adults, who haven’t been taught well and need someone to help them see how appalling abortion is. My conversation with Lisa is an example of how asking questions with an open heart and listening to understand can change the course of a conversation and lead people closer to the truth.

One Person Can Change the World

Train One to Reach One, then Pray for Each One

In my October letter, I asked readers to make a monthly pledge, recommend JFA to a friend, and commit to pray for JFA. Read or share this important letter.

In this Impact Report, we share names and pictures of some of the people with whom our team interacted in 2023. Would you post this list somewhere in your home and pray that God will help each of these people to love the unborn, hate elective abortion, and accept God’s love?

To view more pictures and read recent stories of conversations, see our blog.

As you consider your year-end giving, would you make a special gift to JFA to help our team train many more Christians to reach the people God puts in their path? Thank you!


Pray with us for…



Because One Person Can Change the World

There are four senses in which “one person can change the world.” Ultimately, we believe Jesus Christ is the one Person who changes the world for the better. This is why we exist and why we train Christians to depend on Christ to make change. In addition, each person trained, each life saved, and each person listed below also represents one person who can change the world, by God’s power. Each person is worthy of respect and protection and investment, even if he or she may never change the world in a positive way. It is true, though, that each person JFA reaches could play a pivotal role in changing the world for the better. We thank God that we can partner with you in training Christians to reach one person at a time.

Answering the Hard Cases

August 2023 Impact Report

In almost every conversation about abortion, we can expect people to ask about “hard cases” such as rape, incest, and life-threatening pregnancy complications. In this Impact Report, JFA trainer Kristina Massa beautifully illustrates JFA’s framework for addressing these questions. Through the story of a conversation from our April 2023 outreach at Colorado State University (CSU), Kristina describes step by step how she began with relational sensitivity and continued in that mode while also offering intellectually satisfying answers. Thank you for partnering with us so we can train more Christians and pro-life advocates to use this framework. It gives our strong case against elective abortion the best chance of being considered by skeptical listeners.

Steve Wagner, Executive Director

I watched “Brad” have his first “aha” moment within a few minutes of starting our conversation. My team was set up at Colorado State University in the middle of the campus’s main plaza when I found Brad standing by the free speech board. He was staring pensively at the comments. “Do you have any thoughts on abortion?” I asked. He answered that since the unborn are not conscious, they do not have the same rights as born humans. To make sure I understood his view, I asked a few more questions and found common ground with him where I could. Eventually I felt like I had built enough rapport with him to challenge his perspective. Here is the gist of what followed:

Kristina: I agree there are many differences between the unborn and us. There are also many differences between you and me. I think the question we need to answer is whether these differences matter. For example, you have dark skin, I have light skin. You are taller than me, I have longer hair than you. I am older than you, you are probably smarter than me. It seems like in order to demand we should be treated equally, there has to be something the same or equal about us; something that adults and infants have, but animals do not. Since animals are also conscious, it seems like the quality that grounds our equal rights must be more fundamental.

Kristina (right) talks to students at JFA’s Fort Lewis College outreach event in Durango, Colorado in April 2022.

That was when he had his first “aha” moment.

Brad: We’re all human beings.

Intellectually, he understood the pro-life position. Emotionally, there was still one roadblock hindering him from agreeing with it.

Brad: But what if a woman was raped? My mom was raped and became pregnant with my older sister. Do you think women should have a choice in a situation like that?

Here’s a close up of the free speech board at the CSU outreach. It’s a concept we’ve been testing recently.

Brad asked me a yes or no question, but I was not going to give him a quick yes or no response. The scenario was personal to him, and I needed to meet him relationally before I could give him my answer.

Kristina: I am so sorry your mom went through that. Rape is one of the most heinous crimes. How is she doing now?

Brad: Yeah, it was really hard on her. Thankfully she was already married to my dad, and he was very supportive of her through it. He told her that he would help her take care of my sister.

Rather than immediately answering his question, I slowed the conversation down by expressing concern for his mother. I focused on meeting what we at JFA call “the relational challenge.” This answers the question, “What about the woman? Do pro-life people think the lives of women who have been raped matter?” After all, the woman we were discussing was not an abstract hypothetical character. For Brad, she was his mother.

Still, Brad wanted to know my answer to “the intellectual challenge:” Is abortion justified if the woman was raped? Should it be legal? To answer this, I used the dialogue tool Trot Out the Toddler. It went something like this:

Kristina: Can I share a scenario with you that’s related to your question?

Brad: Sure.

Kristina: Imagine a woman is raped, becomes pregnant, and gives birth to her baby. She’s hurting, and even looking at her baby overwhelms her with fear and pain because her child’s existence reminds her of her attack. This is a terrible and tragic scenario no one should ever have to face. But Brad, I am guessing you and I will agree on a few things about this situation: We both want this woman to heal. We also want her to have choices to go about her healing. But those choices are not unlimited. If she thought ending her infant’s life would be the most helpful way to heal her trauma, we would not let her go through with it. Would you say you share that conviction as well?

Brad: Yes, she cannot kill her baby. That’s a human being.

Kristina: I agree with you, and that is the significant thing. When we say she cannot kill her newborn, we are not saying, “I don’t care about your rape. I don’t care about your trauma. I don’t care about your child.” What we are saying is, “I care so much about you, and I want you to have choices. I just want you to have choices that will help both of you and don’t add violence to an already violent situation.” Since the unborn have a human nature like the infant in this circumstance, do you think it could make sense to protect the unborn in the same way we protect infants who were conceived in rape?

Brad paused to reflect. And then I watched him have his second “aha” moment.

Brad’s comment on the free speech board

Brad: I think you are right. Unborn human beings have the same basic rights we do, so they should be protected, too.

Then he walked back to the free speech board to write the following comment: “It comes down to how we value human life. As humans, we create criteria for what qualifies as a “human.” That is how I perceive the pinpoint of this argument. Perhaps if we come to an agreement for what is truly human, we could apply that criteria for everyone...”

Thank you for helping me make the abortion of all children – regardless of the circumstances that created them – unthinkable, one person at a time. In case no one has told you recently, your life matters, too!

A Changed Heart at Fort Lewis

July 2023 Impact Report

At Justice For All (JFA), we’re passionate about changing hearts and minds about abortion. We want to see thousands of Christians trained each year to do the work in their local communities of speaking up for those who can’t speak for themselves (Prov. 31:8). Even more importantly, though, we see ourselves as ambassadors for Christ, and we look for opportunities to encourage every person we encounter to be reconciled to God (II Cor. 5:20). We want to represent Christ in such a way that each person comes closer to giving his or her life to Christ. In this Impact Report, Rebekah Dyer shares about how God gave her the gift of seeing both a shift in belief about abortion and a new commitment to Christ in the span of an hour. Thank God with us! -Steve Wagner, Executive Director

Rebekah talks to Josh next to the kiosk at Fort Lewis College in April 2023.

I saw “Josh” looking at our kiosk. He started to put his headphones back on and walk away when I approached him and greeted him. I asked him what he thought about abortion, and we walked back over to the kiosk he had been looking at. He started out by telling me that as a man his opinion didn’t really matter even though he was personally opposed to abortion. 

I encouraged him that his opinion is important and equal to mine as a woman since the whole issue of abortion centers around the equal rights of human beings. Women don’t have more of a voice when it comes to child abuse even though they are the ones who give birth to the child. We all have an obligation to stand against that injustice since it harms a human being. It’s the same with abortion.

As we continued talking, I asked him when he believes human beings begin to have rights. I shared the equal rights argument and explained why unborn children should be protected from violence from the moment of fertilization.

I also asked him if he had ever seen pictures of what abortion looks like. He said no, so I asked him if he would be open to viewing some. He said yes, so I opened the Invitation to Dialogue Brochure and showed him images of a first trimester abortion. He was shocked and dismayed by what abortion does to another human being.

As our conversation about abortion was starting to wind down, Josh told me that I had opened his mind to new possibilities and said he appreciated the conversation because it was civil and comfortable. 

Austin and Rebekah pray with Josh at the end of the conversation.

Austin, a local campus ministry leader, came up and joined our conversation at this point. After I introduced Austin, he quickly and naturally began asking Josh about his spiritual beliefs. In response to the direction the conversation was going, Josh asked us, “How does one get into heaven?” 

“I’m so glad you asked.” Austin said. He walked Josh through a gospel tract that went over our sin, our need for a savior, and the salvation that Jesus offers. Part of the tract asks questions about who is on the throne of your life: you or Jesus? Austin asked, “Who do you want on the throne of your life?” Josh said, “Jesus.” It was so encouraging to see God working in his heart! At this point, Austin read him a prayer at the end of the tract and asked if that prayer expressed the desire of his heart. He said it did. So Austin asked him if he wanted to receive Jesus as his Lord and Savior right then. Josh said, “Why not?” We all bowed our heads and Josh prayed for Jesus to save him and transform his life.

“JFA partnered with Master Plan Ministries to produce our Fort Lewis College outreach events in 2019, 2022, and 2023. Austin Krokos (right) is one of the Master Plan missionaries who was instrumental in making these events happen. Austin is a passionate advocate for the lives of the unborn, and he’s also passionate about helping people know Jesus. Partnering with Austin and Master Plan is a huge encouragement for us. Before we come, they help students reserve campus space and convince local churches to host our seminar. After we leave, they follow up with people reached through the event and continue to seek to change hearts and minds the rest of the year. That’s why we aim for the same sort of partnership with communities of Christians in every place that we work. It was a special joy to hear about Rebekah and Austin’s interaction with Josh, featured in this Impact Report. It gave us a glimpse of how we’re helping local Christians like Austin and his colleagues reach their campuses for Christ.” - Steve Wagner

We then prayed for Josh and introduced him to some other local ministry leaders who got his contact information so they could connect further. Austin also wrote in a Bible and gave it to Josh. As we closed out that outreach day, Josh helped us carry a lot of our equipment to the van before we left.

Since then, Josh has attended a Bible study with the local campus ministry and has met with the leader to talk one-on-one about his new found faith in Jesus. I’ve been told he has been like a sponge. He wants to learn everything he can about the Bible.  He told his uncle that he had become a Christian, and his uncle put him down verbally and asked why he would join a “white man’s religion”? Josh defended his faith and shared Revelation 7:9, which tells us that in Heaven there will be people from every tribe, tongue, and nation.

Talking about abortion opens up natural opportunities to share the gospel. Abortion is wrong because human beings matter so much. But we only truly matter if there is a loving God who created us with dignity and purpose. As I talk with students across the country, I see a deep hunger to know God in many of them. At Adams State University two days later, I was able tell two other young men about Jesus and connect them to the campus ministry leaders there.

Please join me in praying for Josh and the other students that were so open to the gospel. “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few.  Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.” Luke 10:2 (ESV)

A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words

June 2023 Impact Report

In this Impact Report, JFA trainer Kaitlyn Donihue illustrates the approach we train all pro-life advocates to take during one-to-one conversations about abortion: when possible, show images of abortion, and do this with a warning and the consent of the person with whom you’re speaking. We need to change a massive number of minds in order to cause the culture to become completely intolerant of elective abortion, but we don’t think a strategy that treats graphic abortion images as always necessary or always sufficient will accomplish this. Since our culture has trained all of us to be highly visual in our way of learning and thinking about the world, though, images are certainly sometimes necessary for changing certain minds. Indeed, sometimes seeing an image appears to be the key element helping a person to change. -Steve Wagner, Executive Director



There is a debate among pro-life advocates about the proper use of graphic abortion images. Some pro-life people find them persuasive and display them publicly. Other pro-life people avoid using them all together.

At Justice For All, we sometimes publicly display graphic abortion images at our outreach events, and sometimes we do not. Most importantly, though, we remind pro-life advocates of common ground we all share on this topic: Whatever your views might be about graphic images of abortion in public, can’t we all agree that in a one-on-one conversation, when you warn and get the consent of the person with whom you are speaking, showing an image of what abortion looks like can be helpful and appropriate?

The reality is that sometimes an image of what abortion looks like is the only thing that can cut through the rhetoric and clarify what abortion actually does. This was the case at Texas State University in November.

I was standing by the Free Speech Board greeting students and asking them if they had time to share their thoughts about abortion. A young man named “Ben” stopped to talk. I spent time getting to know his perspective and found common ground with his views. He was really concerned about people’s rights to make choices. After a few minutes, I began to gently challenge him. Here is how the rest of our conversation went:

Kaitlyn: I definitely agree with you that choice is really important. As a woman, I am thankful to live in a country where I have rights and the freedom to make choices. There are many countries where I, as a woman, would not have rights. This is going to sound strange, but I’m also glad that I don’t have some rights. For example, I don’t have the right to harm or kill someone on this campus and that is because my rights end where your rights begin. So with the issue of abortion, we have to ask, “Is the unborn a human being?” If the unborn isn’t a human being, then of course women should have the right to abortion; but if the unborn is a human being, then it seems like the woman’s rights should end where the unborn human being’s rights begin. What do you think about that question? Do you think the unborn is a human being?

Ben: I have never really thought about that before. I guess I don’t really know.

Kaitlyn: Do you mind if I share my understanding of what we know from the study of biology?

Ben: Sure.

Kaitlyn: If the unborn is growing, isn’t it alive?

Ben: Yeah, I guess it must be alive.

Kaitlyn: I agree with you there. If the unborn has human parents, do you think that means that the unborn are human?

Ben: Yes, I guess they would have to be.

Kaitlyn: If the unborn is living and human, then shouldn’t we protect them?

Ben: I just think choice is really important. Women should have the right to choose to do whatever they want.

Kaitlyn: I definitely agree that choice is really important, so we are on the same page there. Let’s imagine for a moment that we have two buckets. One bucket is for all of the choices that people should be allowed to make. We should all be allowed to decide what kind of ice cream we like, and what college we attend, etc. The other bucket is for the choices we shouldn’t be allowed to make. For example, we shouldn’t be allowed to choose to kill someone, or to rape someone, or to steal from someone. Which bucket do you think abortion belongs in? [See “Two Buckets” for more on this strategy.]

Ben: The first bucket.

Kaitlyn: Do you think the unborn are human beings?

Ben: Yes.

Kaitlyn: I agree with you. Do you think abortion kills those human beings?

Ben: Well, maybe abortion belongs in the second bucket, but I still think women should have the right to choose to do what they want.

Kaitlyn: Ben, have you ever seen pictures of what abortion looks like?

Ben: No.

Kaitlyn: Would you be willing to see some pictures of what abortion looks like? They are very graphic and hard to look at.

Ben: Sure.

Kaitlyn: These are pictures of what abortion looks like.

You can use JFA’s Invitation to Dialogue Brochure to show pictures with sensitivity just as Kaitlyn did. Click here to get a digital version for your phone (with hyperlinks) and to request the paper version of the brochure.

Ben got very quiet as he stared at the graphic images of abortion in our brochure (seven weeks to twelve weeks from fertilization). We stood together in silence for a minute. Finally I asked him,

Kaitlyn: Ben, do you think that a woman should be allowed to make a choice that looks like this?

Ben: No. This should not be legal.

Ben’s response surprised me. Students don’t often shift their perspective right in front of us this way. Many are not impacted by the images at all, but for others, the images help them process what abortion actually does to a human being. As Ben demonstrated, there is power in not just thinking abstractly about facts and arguments but also in seeing the truth about abortion.

Recent Campus Conversations

April 2023 Impact Report

In this Impact Report compiled by Rebekah Dyer, we share pictures from recent events, along with brief conversation reflections from Rebekah and two other JFA trainers, Kaitlyn and Andrea. In January, February, and March, we conducted outreach on 17 days at nine campuses in six states: CSU Fullerton (CA), Palomar College (CA), Univ. of Arizona (AZ), Univ. of Texas at Austin (TX), Texas State (TX), Univ. of Cincinnati (OH), Univ. of Texas at San Antonio (TX), Wichita State (KS), and Newman Univ. (KS). Thank you for partnering with us financially and for praying for our work. -- Steve Wagner, Executive Director

CSU Fullerton (CA) — Jan. 2023 — Jon (left) and Rebekah (right) interact with students during our first outreach event of the year.

Experiencing the Unexpected

Univ. of Arizona (AZ) — Feb. 2023 — Paul (blue sweatshirt) talks to students near the JFA poll table. (Also visible in background: Kristina and Rebekah)

“Have you had a lot of conversations about abortion before, and, if so, how have they gone for you?” I often ask this question on campus, and people’s answers give me important background information about their experiences talking about abortion. At the University of New Mexico, I met two students who were reluctant to talk to me because they had had such bad experiences voicing their opinions in the past. One young woman told me she felt like she was shaking at some point in our conversation. Another student told me he had never heard a good argument for the pro-life position, and he was only familiar with people yelling and holding signs. I asked him if he’d be open to hearing a good argument and when he said yes, I presented the equal rights argument. At the end of our conversations, both of these students thanked me for the conversation and how I treated them.

I was grateful for the opportunity to give these students a good experience talking about abortion. I hope it will help them to be more open to the next person God places in their path to continue the dialogue. Conversations about abortion are important because people inside and outside the womb matter so much. – Rebekah Dyer

Loving Those Who Differ

Univ. of Texas at San Antonio (TX) — Feb. 2023 — Gavin (yellow) logged lots of conversations during eight days of JFA outreach from January to March. You can join us for a mission trip, too: www.jfaweb.org/mission-trips.

While the JFA team was doing outreach at Texas State in San Marcos, a young man I’ll call Mark stopped by. Mark was reserved and quiet. When I asked him if he had thoughts about abortion he said he didn’t want to get into it. I nodded and began asking questions about his life to show him I cared. I asked what he was studying and where he was from, if he had a community on campus, and what his dreams were for the future. Through these questions I learned that he is intelligent and thoughtful but very shy and deeply lonely. I also gained his trust. Eventually we did begin discussing abortion. We also talked for a long time about Christianity and the gospel. Early in our conversation Mark seemed tentative, and I thought he might leave at any moment, but as I listened and asked questions he relaxed, and we talked for over two hours. It became clear that he was starved for conversation and compassion. Many of us struggle to start conversations because we assume people don’t want to have this kind of conversation. Over and over I have found the opposite to be true. Like Mark, many people in our culture are deeply lonely and would love to have a real conversation with someone who cares. – Kaitlyn Donihue

An Open Heart Towards the Gospel

Univ. of Cincinnati (OH) — Feb. 2023 — Mary (grey, facing away from camera) and Kaitlyn (right) engage students at our outreach event in Cincinnati.

Univ. of New Mexico (NM) — Mar. 2023 — JFA trainers Jeremy (left, red) and Andrea (center) interact with students in Albuquerque.

At the University of New Mexico outreach, Isaac was standing at our kiosk looking at the images of the unborn. I approached him and asked if he had any thoughts about abortion. Isaac said he believed that abortion should be legal, especially when a child is not wanted. I asked him questions, and we talked through the “Trot out the Toddler” analogy, as well as evidence from biology showing that the unborn is a human being. I then shared images of abortion with him. As the conversation progressed, Isaac agreed that the unborn are living human beings. I challenged him by saying, “We just agreed that the unborn are living human beings, so if that is true, would you agree the unborn deserves equal rights, at least in the basic right to life?” Indicating that his heart and mind were changing, he responded, “Yes, I would agree with that.” We then proceeded to have an extensive conversation about his spiritual beliefs. I had the opportunity to share the hope of the gospel with him, and I gave him the gospel of John. He was excited to read it and told me that he was going to journal about it afterwards. – Andrea Thenhaus


Do you receive email updates from JFA’s prayer team coordinator, Mary Biegler, with specific prayer requests for upcoming events? See www.jfaweb.org/pray to sign up.

Father, Please Give Me a Glimpse

March 2023 Impact Report

The Justice For All team is on a mission to train Christians to change hearts and minds about abortion, and along the way, we use the conversations we create to challenge people to take Jesus Christ and the Christian worldview more seriously. While our trainers report progress in some conversations, the progress of other conversations many times remains hidden.

When I read the reflection below from Kaitlyn Donihue, JFA’s trainer based in Ohio, I wanted to share it with you. It represents a sweet gift from God in giving her a glimpse of how He is using JFA’s work. May this spur us on to continue to be faithful in the work He has given us to do. And let us be thankful both when He does not allow us to see what He is doing and when He does. -Steve Wagner, Executive Director



Have you ever opened a novel to the middle, read a chapter, and put it down again? Neither have I, but that is what outreach often feels like. Through our conversations with students, we get a glimpse into their stories and hopefully have the opportunity to impact their lives, but it is a brief glimpse, and usually we don’t get to see how their stories play out. We don’t know whether our words made a difference or not. We don’t find out whether the story ends in joy or tragedy.

Not knowing the ending is hard. I often leave campus with a heavy heart because I care about the students with whom I talked but don’t know what will happen to them, and I can’t do anything more for them.

Last month as I got ready for our trip to Texas, I struggled with whether we are doing any good. I asked God to give me a glimpse of how He is using our work, and He graciously answered that prayer.

Halfway through our first day of outreach, our whole team was hot and tired. Several students were standing by the free speech board reading the comments. I walked over to one and asked him whether he had any thoughts about abortion. He barely gave me a glance as he said, “Not really.” “Okay,” I said. “Do you think it should be legal or illegal or somewhere in between?” “I don’t really care,” he said and walked away.

I stared after him for a minute feeling discouraged. Then I turned to another student who was standing nearby. “Do you have thoughts on the issue of abortion?” I asked him. I noted as I did that he was wearing a T-shirt that said, “Unashamed Follower of Jesus.”

“Yeah,” he said, “I think abortion is wrong. It kills a human being.”

“I agree with you. I’m Kaitlyn by the way.”

“I’m Sam,” he said. “I work with a campus student ministry, and I have been discipling a young man. Last semester he wasn’t following Christ, and he was pro-choice, but he talked to you guys when you were here before and that conversation was really significant to him. He has since become pro-life and made a full commitment to follow Christ because of that conversation. I wanted to come by and tell you that. God is using you guys. Thank you for what you are doing.”

He has since become pro-life and made a full commitment to follow Christ because of that conversation.

I was overwhelmed by the goodness of God. Because of His great love, He answered my prayer and gave me just a glimpse into what He is doing in the life of one student.

Hearing about this student was such a gift. It gives me courage to believe that God is at work in the lives of the other students with whom we talk even if we never get to see the ending of their stories.

As our outreach in Texas drew to a close, I began praying a new prayer that I have prayed many times since: “Thank you, Father, that though these students may now be out of my reach, they are not out of Yours.”

One Person at a Time

In this Impact Report, we share the names and pictures of some of the people with whom our team interacted in 2022. Please join us in praying that God will take the seeds we planted and change the world, one person at a time. Pray each person would love and protect the children in their care. Pray for healing from past hurts, and pray each heart would become open to God.

Would you join us in committing to pray for each of these people in the coming months?

You can use the images below (7 total) to pray through the list from your phone or other device with us this year?

To view more pictures and read recent stories of conversations, see other recent posts on the JFA blog.

There’s still time to give a year-end gift to help Justice For All train many Christians to reach one person at a time in 2023. Thank you for supporting our team and for praying along with us.

Picture: How Two Minds Changed

November 2022 Impact Report

Before they step foot on campus, our interns and volunteers are trained to be faithful to God as his ambassadors, to leave the results of each conversation to him, and to be ready to not always see impact. Still, we hope their first experience can include some glimpses of change in the way people think, feel, and act regarding abortion. To support them, our veteran team members make it their highest priority to serve as mentors at our outreach events. In this Impact Report, JFA intern Hannah Cook shares the story of her first outreach day in August. Along the way, you’ll see the important role JFA trainers Mary and Tammy played in helping Hannah experience success. Thank you for praying for and supporting the work of our trainers, volunteers, and interns. God is changing the world through them, one conversation at a time. (See the JFA Blog for other recent stories of impact.) - Steve Wagner, Executive Director

I wanted to run away.

We had just about finished setting up our outreach displays at Wichita State University (WSU) when a girl gestured to our “Should Abortion Remain Legal?” poll table and said, “What are you guys doing here? I thought we already voted on this.” She was referring to the “Value Them Both” Amendment that had been soundly defeated in the Kansas Primary Election four weeks earlier. My foggy brain immediately snapped to attention as I sensed the edge in her voice. She was clearly irritated. I couldn’t tell if her condescending smile was a half-hearted attempt at cordiality or simply a way of insulting us further. In any case, I could tell that she was ready for a fight. One wrong word from us, and she would pounce. I felt adrenaline rush through my body as my heart began pounding. I looked to Mary Biegler who was standing next to me, hoping she would know what to say. I was thankful that she did.

Hannah (right) discusses the images in the JFA brochure with a student at Oklahoma State University in October 2022.

As Mary calmly began explaining that we were aiming to have productive conversations about abortion, I relaxed a little, hoping that the girl would have an open heart and mind. She did not. She questioned and challenged Mary at every turn, refusing to give an inch. At this point a guy walked up and joined the conversation. He listened for a few minutes, echoed the girl’s sentiments, and added his own challenges. We talked about bodily rights, the question of rape, and the central question, “What is the unborn?” No matter what we said, though, it was like trying to reason with brick walls. Nothing was getting through. Our arguments were cast aside and rejected. A mix of frustration, discouragement, and hopelessness swirled through me as I tried to keep up with the onslaught of objections being hurled at us. This was nothing like the life-changing encounters I had been reading about all week from other JFA interns and trainers. What happened to the nice open-minded discussions that left me feeling warm and fuzzy inside? At that moment, I wanted to flee the scene, drive the 19 hours back to my peaceful hometown in Idaho, and never talk to another pro-choice person again.

Well, it turned out that I was able to escape – not back to Idaho but at least out of that conversation. Someone asked for directions, and I stepped away to help her. A little while later, I noticed three guys standing nearby listening to a conversation at the outreach. They seemed interested in the topic, so I asked if they had any thoughts about abortion. They told me that they were from Zimbabwe and that abortion really isn’t talked about there. Their names were Chimdi, Denzel, and Bryan.

Denzel and Bryan said they were personally pro-life but that abortion should still be legal. Chimdi didn’t think it should be legal. When I asked Denzel and Bryan if they thought there should be any restrictions on abortion, Bryan told me that he thought the cut-off should be five months gestation. “Why did you pick that specific point?” I asked. He replied, “Because by then they have arms and legs and everything.”

When I heard this, I knew that he needed to see pictures of fetal development because the features he was describing appear so much earlier than five months. When I showed Bryan and the others that arms and legs are clearly present at seven weeks post-fertilization, they were all shocked. Immediately Bryan switched his cut-off point to three months gestation. I was amazed at such quick progress. It showed me the power of pictures. We talked some more, and I trotted out the toddler to help us focus on the question, “What is the unborn?” Even so, they still held pretty firmly to the belief that a woman should have a right to choose. Meanwhile, Tammy Cook had come up and was listening to our conversation. She later told me that she was there to be a support, and she wasn’t planning to say anything unless I asked her.

The conversation had been productive so far, but I wasn’t sure how to proceed. I turned to Tammy and asked what she thought. She asked all of us to imagine two buckets filled with different choices. The first bucket contains personal preferences like which foods you eat, what college you attend, and with whom you choose to spend time. The second bucket contains choices that harm people – choices like rape, child abuse, and murder. She noted that there should be legal restrictions on the second bucket of choices because those particular choices harm other human beings. She then asked which bucket abortion belonged in. They all said that it belonged in the second bucket. I was amazed and delighted – even more progress! (For more about the “Two Buckets” analogy, see www.jfaweb.org/two-buckets.)

Tammy’s “Two Buckets” analogy had definitely put us on the right track, but Bryan was still resistant. He said that the reason people don’t care about abortion in the same way that they would care about a toddler being killed is because they can’t see abortion. He almost said it in a way that justified his own position about abortion – suggesting that he too thought it was okay because he couldn’t see it. I suddenly knew what I needed to say. I asked the three of them if they had heard about Emmett Till, the black boy who was murdered for allegedly “whistling at a white woman” in the South in the 1950’s. I was a little surprised when they nodded and said that yes, they knew of him. (For a good introduction to the story, watch the trailer of the newly-released movie, Till.) After briefly recapping the story, I was able to explain that when Emmett’s mother physically opened the casket of her maimed and disfigured son, she metaphorically opened the casket on racism, and the whole world saw racism for the evil and horrific thing that it was. No longer was racism hidden from public view – it was on full display and could not so easily be denied or minimized. Then I said, “I actually have some pictures of the results of abortion with me. Are you willing to look at them?” Denzel was the first to view the brochure, followed by Chimdi. Bryan refused to look, but the connection between Emmett Till and abortion was sinking in.

The next thing I knew they were all agreeing that abortion should not be legal at any point. I was overjoyed. One conversation had resulted in a complete change of heart and mind for these students. Regardless of whether people change their mind, it’s still worthwhile to have conversations with them, but it is such a gift when we do get to see change take place. It was a great encouragement as I continued having conversations with other students who were not so quick to change.

I also realize that if I had chosen to run away after that initial conversation, I never would have received the blessing of witnessing such a profound transformation of heart and mind in Denzel and Bryan. I thank God for helping me to continue to be faithful even in the midst of discouragement.

– Hannah Cook, for the JFA Team


Make Your Own Impact by Giving a Year-End Gift

As you consider your year-end giving, please consider giving generously to JFA to help us train more Christians to change more hearts and minds about abortion in 2023. With various state ballot initiatives strengthening abortion rights following the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision, it’s especially important that we continue our work of changing hearts and minds, one person at a time. Even in the states where unborn children now have legal protection, we see hearts and minds wavering, especially when no one has come alongside to help each person think things through. We’re encouraged, though, because we know that one person can change the world. Each person we train and each person we engage in dialogue can change the world for an unborn child, and each child allowed to live can in turn change the world for others. Above all these, we believe God is the one who really changes minds, heals hearts, and changes the world. Please partner with us as we seek to humbly serve our great God in this work in 2023. You can give online or send a check using the information on our “Mail a Gift” page. Learn more about JFA’s vision and needs for 2023 at our “Invest in JFA” page. Or, call me directly at 316-683-6426 to discuss! - Steve Wagner, Executive Director



No Regrets

Impact Report - October 2022

For most people, talking about moral or spiritual matters with other people is daunting when we have no knowledge of how they might respond. But what about when people have shown us that their views definitely conflict with ours? Even worse, what if someone has demonstrated he or she is close-minded or has even made mocking comments about the pro-life position or Christianity or people who believe in Jesus? We don’t want to “cast our pearls before swine” so should we step into the conversation even if we have reasons to believe it won’t be fruitful? In this Impact Report, JFA dialogue artist Andrea Thenhaus describes a recent conversation that illustrates why our answer to this question is usually “Yes!” She learned that we can have misconceptions about people and that conversations can go far better than we predicted. -Steve Wagner, Executive Director


Towards the end of the second day of our Texas State University outreach this month, a group of four people started looking at the free speech board. I stood nearby for a few minutes listening. They were making inappropriate and crass remarks about the comments they were reading.

Andrea (right) interacts with a student at Fort Lewis College in Durango, CO in April 2022.

At first, I did not want to talk with these students. What if they decided to direct their rude comments toward me? I had several excellent conversations that day, and I did not want to end on a discouraging note.

Then I decided I wanted to finish the day having no regrets. If they did not want to engage, or if the conversation did not go well, at least I would know I had done my part by trying to dialogue with them.

I asked them if they had any thoughts on the issue of abortion. They started by saying that they are pro-choice and then began sharing with me why they thought abortion should be legal. Christy, a member of the Students For Life club on campus, asked if she could join the conversation. Our conversation went something like this:

Sophia: I have seen so much suffering in this world. I just want to prevent kids from having to experience suffering. I think abortion should be legal for that reason. It would be more compassionate to end the life of the unborn when they are not conscious or aware of what is going on.

Jessica: There are many children suffering in foster care. We need to change the foster care system if abortion is going to be illegal.

Christy: Can I ask you a question? Imagine that there is a group of kids in the foster care system. Would it be okay to kill them to help relieve the suffering they are experiencing?

They agreed that would not be right, but then they noted differences between these kids and the unborn:

Jessica: At that point they are already in this world.

Sophia: The unborn is different, and I just want to prevent the child from experiencing pain and suffering.

Jessica: I have two siblings who have been in the foster care system. It was very hard on them. In that moment, I sensed that they had a story to share. I realized that I needed to just listen.

Sophia: I have had a hard life. Many people in my life have died. Yesterday, my friend told me that her mom recently passed away after she had been missing. I also attended a school where we were frequently on lockdowns due to shootings. At first it was terrifying to attend school every day knowing that I might get shot. I eventually stopped fearing death and accepted that I could die. As the conversation continued, both of these young women expressed that they don’t have hope.

Andrea: Thank you for sharing. Everyone has a story, and it is important to listen to one another. I want people to know that I care about them. You never know what someone is going through or has gone through in their life.

Sophia: I can tell that you care. She started to tear up, and I reaffirmed my concern for her. After a few minutes, it seemed helpful to note why we were on campus and how that related to listening to individual stories.

Andrea: JFA is a pro-life organization. The heart behind our outreach is to create healthy and productive dialogue about abortion. That means it’s important to hear where each person is coming from.

Sophia: I agree that it is important to talk about this issue. We can bring both sides to the table and listen to each other.

Andrea: This is the way I look at it: If the unborn are living human beings like you and me, then abortion is taking a life. I think we need to protect the unborn. If the unborn are not human beings, then it does not matter if someone gets an abortion. You mentioned earlier that abortion is a choice. I think choice is good as long as it does not harm another human being. This is why I am pro-life, but I think that pro-life should not end at birth.

They looked at each other and then Sophia exclaimed,

Sophia: I can’t believe you just said that! You are the first person I have heard say that pro-life should not end at birth. Wow! This has been a groundbreaking conversation.

As we continued talking, my heart ached for them and their lack of hope. I felt prompted to share the gospel because I know that true hope is only found in Jesus Christ. I asked a question to begin: “What gives you hope?”

We then launched into a conversation in which I was able to share in detail what Christ has done for us. Finally I said, “I share all this with you because I care about you. There is not much hope in this world, but I find my hope in Jesus. I am confident that one day I’ll go to heaven, and that gives me hope!”

Throughout our conversation, and especially during our discussion of spiritual things, Sophia and Jessica were exceptionally receptive and appreciative.

As the conversation came to a close, I thanked them for taking the time to talk. They replied, “No. Thank you. We greatly appreciated this conversation and all that you shared. So thank you!”

I thank God for allowing me to see a window into His work in their hearts. I did leave this conversation with no regrets, and I was grateful for their remarkable shift in attitude. I am reminded that not all our interactions will go like this one. Often, we do not get to see the fruit of our labor. No matter the outcome, we can focus on being faithful to plant seeds and let God do the rest. I pray that you take the opportunities God gives you in the coming weeks so you also can say, “I have no regrets” and give thanks to Him for whatever results He brings.

Attitude Can Make or Break the Conversation

Recently, veteran JFA trainer Rebecca Hotovy found an unsent email in her drafts folder. It contained a nearly complete newsletter detailing a conversation from years back. I was so taken with it, I wanted to share it with you. (Rebecca still coaches other JFA speakers part-time during brief breaks from her full-time job as mom to two precious boys.)

We know this story definitely happened at the University of Oklahoma, and we think it happened around 2015. Whatever the date, the story beautifully illustrates the power of JFA’s dialogue approach, the power of a few carefully crafted questions asked with an open heart, and the way in which our attitude has the power to make or break a conversation. - Steve Wagner, Executive Director


Impact Report, June 2022

Rebecca Hotovy, JFA Trainer Certification Coach and Trainer Emeritus

 Several years ago at the University of Oklahoma (OU), as I stood next to the large exhibit, a young man approached me. I’ll call him Chris. Confident that abortion was a woman’s right, Chris started to explain why he felt abortion should remain legal. Several feet from me stood another man, likely twenty to thirty years older than Chris. Although this older man was not a volunteer with Justice For All, he held a pro-life view. He was close enough to hear my conversation with Chris, and as the conversation continued, he listened in.

Rebecca (center) interacts with an OU student in 2015 near a small version of the JFA Exhibit.

In the first few minutes of that discussion, I took time to figure out the reasoning behind Chris’s belief that abortion should remain legal. Without first understanding why Chris held his view or how he came to the conclusion that abortion should remain legal, I knew I wouldn’t be able help him see errors in his reasoning. I was also aware that blatantly pointing out any errors may upset him enough that he would end the conversation. If he didn’t end the conversation but he stayed and continued talking, it would likely make him put up barriers of self-defense that would prevent him from wanting to listen to the ideas being presented, even if he was physically present and talking. Sadly, I’ve seen this happen many times – two people begin to dialogue about a controversial subject, quickly start defending their own positions, and turn a conversation into two monologues because they feel offended. If they feel offended for whatever reason, they may hear words coming from the other person’s mouth, but they don’t listen to the meaning of the message of those words.

In my conversation with Chris, over time it became clear that he did not believe the unborn was biologically human. When I felt I had built a good rapport with him, I allowed our conversation to take a turn. I started asking questions not just to discover his reasoning in defense of legal abortion but also to challenge that reasoning. At this point in the conversation I knew he would welcome the challenge because he could see that I didn’t desire to push my agenda down his throat. The challenge questions I asked were exactly the ones we train participants to ask when they attend the Abortion: From Debate to Dialogue seminar. I said something like:

Rebecca: Chris, do you mean that you don’t believe the unborn is biologically a human being or that the unborn isn’t a human being that deserves the same rights as you and I do?

Chris: Oh, it’s not biologically a human being at all. It’s just a clump of cells in those early stages.

Rebecca: If I could offer evidence for why the unborn is a human being, would you mind?

Chris: Sure. Go ahead.

Rebecca: If the unborn is growing, isn’t it alive?

Chris: [pausing and then slowly nodding his head] Yeah, sure I can agree with that.

Rebecca: If the unborn has human parents, isn’t it human?

Chris: [pausing and pondering the question with a slight grin on his face] Yes.

It was his answer to my third question, though, that threw me for a loop.

Rebecca: And living human beings, like you and me, are valuable, aren’t they?

Chris: Oh my gosh. Yes.

There was another moment of silence as he continued to ponder the questions I had just asked that laid out a defense for the humanity of the unborn. We stood in silence for a while longer. Then he said something like:

Chris: Wow, okay, so I need to think through this more.

This was so unexpected to me because most students I talk to do not agree with each of these questions. They have all sorts of creative ideas to share, such as “Well, fire grows, and it’s not alive” or “Yeah, well a clump of cells might be alive and have human DNA, but that doesn’t mean it is a human being...Are tumors human beings?” or “Sperm are alive and have human DNA. Are all sperm valuable, too?”

Chris didn’t have any retorts like these. He simply agreed that the unborn was a human being.

Just as I thought the conversation was going really well, it took a turn for the worse. The pro-life man who had been listening in stepped close enough to us to join the conversation, turned to Chris, and snootily remarked, “She got ya! Didn’t she‽”

My heart dropped to my stomach. I had taken such care not to make Chris feel like I was attacking his position and to make him feel comfortable sharing his thoughts with me, and in less than three seconds someone who claimed to be pro-life obliterated all my efforts. Chris was as shocked as I was. His face showed it. He also became really nervous and started stumbling over his words.

One would think that I would easily become frustrated with people who hold beliefs against the dignity and sanctity of human life, but in this instance I became frustrated instead with this person who was like-minded to me in certain ways but didn’t realize the importance of treating the human standing in front of us with respect. Fortunately, I was able to jump back into the conversation, regain a good rapport with Chris, direct the conversation away from the “got ya” remark, and help him feel less nervous.

In hindsight, I now take another step back and realize that the art of learning to dialogue is a journey for everyone – the pro-life advocate and the pro-choice advocate alike. Prior to my training and work with Justice For All, if I had been that pro-life person standing there listening in on the conversation, I may have made a similar remark. Early on I didn’t understand that the way I shared the truth about the unborn could actually affect whether that truth helped pro-choice advocates change their minds. Thank you, Justice For All, for your gift of teaching me the beauty of dialoguing in love!

Note: Yes, that’s an intentional interrobang in the fourth from the last paragraph. Learn more about this controversial punctuation mark through this engaging podcast episode from 99 Percent Invisible.

Two Buckets, Take 2

In our team debriefs recently, a number of our younger staff members have been remarking about a tool they picked up from Tammy Cook, who has been working at JFA since 1996. Tammy originally described her “Two Buckets” analogy in our September 2017 Impact Report (I encourage you to go back and read that story above). This Impact Report features a second “Two Buckets” installment from Tammy. She details a conversation that happened at Wichita State University in August, along with a summary of the impact of all of her conversations at that outreach event. - Steve Wagner, Executive Director

Impact Report, April 2022

By Tammy Cook, JFA Training Specialist

Tammy interacts with a student at Wichita State University in August 2021.

What a privilege it was to be back on the Wichita State University (WSU) campus on August 30 and 31 with the JFA team! I was excited to once again dialogue with college students face to face after a 17-month wait. I was ready to meet the challenge of helping them think through their views on abortion, and I prayed to see hearts and minds changed.

I introduced my Two Buckets analogy in 2017. It continues to be a very useful approach with pro-choice students that say, “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but I can’t tell others what to do.” I’m thrilled to share the impact that this analogy had on a WSU student named James.

James didn’t identify as pro-life or pro-choice. He said, “I’m in the middle.” I asked several questions to help him think through his views. I discovered that he believed that we become human at fertilization and that the unborn are human like us. He also agreed that the unborn deserved to be treated equally to born people and should be protected.

I then asked, “If you were to vote tomorrow on whether or not to keep abortion legal, how would you vote?” He thought long and hard and said, “I can still see both sides of the issue. I believe strongly in freedom of choice. I just don’t think I can take someone else’s rights away.” I shared my Two Buckets story to help him dig deeper into his thinking.

Tammy: Imagine that I have two buckets. The first bucket contains choices like murder, rape, stealing, and molestation. Do you agree that these choices are wrong and should not be legal?

James: Yes.

Tammy: The second bucket contains personal choices—for example, a favorite food like strawberries, choosing to go to college or not, dying your hair blue, etc. Do you agree that everyone should have the freedom to make these personal choices that do not harm others?

James: Yes.

Tammy: The significant difference between each of the two buckets is that one contains choices that harm people and the other bucket contains choices that do not harm people.

Two Buckets (Illustration by Joanna Bai)

James: That makes a lot of sense. Many people think pro-life people want to take rights away, but I can see now that you’re actually wanting to add rights to people— to let them have plenty of rights as long as it doesn’t harm another human being...

I smiled and nodded in agreement.

James: What about rape? That’s a really tough situation.

Tammy: I agree.

I spent some time empathizing with women who’ve been raped and stated that we should punish rapists more fully. He agreed, and I continued:

Tammy: There are most likely students walking on this campus that were conceived from rape. Do you think they are any less valuable than those students who were not conceived in rape?

James: No.

I could see that this was a lightbulb moment for him.

Tammy: So, in which bucket does abortion belong?

James: [after a short pause] Abortion belongs in the bucket with murder.

I again nodded in agreement. We smiled at each other. Then I returned to my earlier question:

Tammy: If you were to vote tomorrow on whether or not to keep abortion legal, how would you vote?

James: I’d definitely vote no!

This was such a great moment. I paused to thank God for using me as an instrument to help James have a change of heart so significant that he is now willing even to vote to protect the unborn.


Summary of My WSU Event Conversations

Tammy Cook

I saw God working in the hearts of many people. I had conversations with ten students over the course of two days at WSU (see one in the photo above). Here’s how I would categorize the students after asking a few questions to assess their views:

BEFORE: Undecided: 2 Pro-Choice: 5 Pro-Life: 3

I saw a complete shift in thinking by the end of the conversations with the two undecided students and two of the pro-choice students. All four said they would vote to make abortion illegal. I used the Two Buckets analogy in most of these conversations, and I believe it was integral in helping several of them, if not all, rethink their views.

AFTER: Undecided: 0 Pro-Choice: 3 Pro-Life: 7


Note: This story was originally published in Tammy Cook’s September 2021 newsletter. You can read and share both this and the first “Two Buckets” story using the following webpage: www.jfaweb.org/two-buckets.

One Central Question Helps Change a Mind

After serving at JFA for almost a decade, my sister Joanna Bai is moving on from her JFA work to focus completely on her growing family (she is due to give birth to another baby in March). Jon Wagner and I consider it a great gift and privilege to have been allowed to serve alongside our dear sister at JFA for so many years. The rest of the JFA team has expressed similar sentiments.

In this Impact Report we are featuring a conversation story Joanna shared in her March 2013 newsletter both because of the impact within the story itself, but also because it illustrates Joanna’s compelling teaching, her heart for mentoring, and her beautiful, clear writing – just a few of the many ways Joanna has impacted JFA’s team and mission. Please join us in thanking God for Joanna and enjoy with us this look back at His work through her. Thank you, Joanna! We will miss working with you! - Steve Wagner, Executive Director



Impact Report, March 2022

She started out defending abortion because of the plight of those in poverty. In just minutes, she said, “We really need to resolve the question of what the unborn is.” From there, I was able to help her find an answer. What caused the change?

I noticed “Jamie,” a confident young student at the University of North Texas, when she rode her bike up to the edge of the Justice For All Exhibit [Nov. 2012*]. It took me a few moments to decide if I would approach her. I’m so glad I did.

Joanna (right) interacts with a student at Arizona State in February 2013. Image: Cheryl Caffarella Wilson

Joanna (right) interacts with a student at Arizona State in February 2013. Image: Cheryl Caffarella Wilson

I asked Jamie what she thought about abortion. She told me openly, “Well, don’t get me wrong, I don’t like abortion. It just seems like difficult circumstances make it necessary. I’d say I’m pro-choice.”

“What sorts of circumstances are you concerned about the most?” I asked. She replied, “There are so many things. What about poverty? How can we force women who have no money and no resources to have kids? And how can we force those kids into such horrible lives?”

Jamie was raising an important point, but I knew that the fact of poverty itself wouldn’t help us discover whether abortion is a good solution to poverty. The conversation that followed illustrated perfectly one of the things we teach JFA volunteers: With abortion, there’s one central question we need to answer before moving on to other questions. I follow four steps to help people discover for themselves how central this question is. We call this process Trot Out a Toddler.*

Step 1: AGREE where possible.

Joanna: Jamie, I agree with you that many women have so little money and so few resources that it is difficult for them to be mothers. We need to be more concerned about those in poverty.

Step 2: APPLY the situation to a two-year-old.

Joanna: But Jamie, imagine a woman who is living in extreme poverty and who absolutely cannot rear a child. She doesn’t even have enough money to feed herself. Imagine that this woman has a two-year-old. Should she be able to kill that two-year-old because their lives are so difficult?

Jamie: Of course not. She cannot kill a two-year-old!

Joanna: I agree. Of course she cannot kill her two-year-old. And I know that question sounds a little odd on its face...

Joanna (left) interacts with students at Arizona State in February 2013. Image: Cheryl Caffarella Wilson

Joanna (right) interacts with students at Arizona State in February 2013. Image: Cheryl Caffarella Wilson

Step 3: ASK WHY the mother cannot kill the two-year-old.

Joanna: ...but let me ask you this: Why is it not okay to kill the two-year-old?

Jamie: Well, it’s not okay to kill the two-year-old because the two-year-old is a human being.

Step 4: AH! (The light-bulb moment: Discovering the central question, “What is the unborn?”)

Joanna: I agree. So it sounds like we don’t need to resolve the question of whether poverty matters. We agree that it certainly does. Rather, the question we need to resolve is, ‘What is the unborn?’ If the unborn is human like the two-year-old, then we can’t kill the unborn even because of poverty, right?

Jamie looked at me and I could tell she was thinking hard. She replied,

Jamie: That makes a lot of sense. I don’t know that much about when we become human, but it seems like that is the question we have to answer.

Most people will agree that abortion kills something, but whether or not we can kill a living thing depends first on what it is. Some pro-choice arguments address this question, “What is it?” and argue that the unborn is not a valuable human being. But others, like Jamie’s, ignore the unborn completely. Although arguments like hers raise important concerns, they assume that the unborn is not valuable. The four-step Trot Out a Toddler process helped Jamie realize that she needed to focus on the central question, “What is the unborn?”

Jamie and I continued our conversation for a few more minutes, discussing the evidence for the biological humanity of the unborn. We also discussed why we can have confidence that the unborn human has the same basic human rights that you and I have. Toward the end of the conversation, I was excited to see the progress we had made:

Jamie: You know, a lot of my friends are the ones protesting over there. [A number of pro-choice students had gathered with drums and signs to protest during the outreach.] But, I actually grew up in a Christian home, and my parents are pro-life. I don’t see eye to eye with my parents about a lot of things – for instance, I’m a lesbian – but I think I can agree with them about this issue. I think I can call myself pro-life now. I thought, by the way my friends talked, that you all were gonna shove anti-gay, anti-woman rhetoric at me. But I actually enjoyed this conversation. I really appreciate the way you all are creating dialogue.

I thanked her, and then she said something I’ll never forget:

Jamie: I have a lot of friends who have had abortions. And Joanna, you can see the change in them after the procedure. They carry an undeniable emptiness, as if they’ve truly lost a person.

And with that, she had to go to class.

Jamie’s barriers to being against abortion had been mainly social and cultural. She didn’t want to be identified with certain politically conservative views or certain “pro-life” people. The Trot Out a Toddler process was essential in our conversation because it helped her focus on the central question “What is the unborn?” Although this tool didn’t make the pro-life case for me, it helped Jamie and I agree about the question we needed to answer. It was just a short step from that point of agreement to Jamie’s moment of realizing that abortion is wrong because it kills a valuable human being.

* This story originally appeared in Joanna Bai’s March 2013 newsletter. See the links below to read other letters from Joanna. We owe the memorable phrase “Trot Out the Toddler” to Scott Klusendorf (prolifetraining.com) and the concept of “one central question” to Greg Koukl (str.org).


Joanna Bai: Selected Newsletters